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Assignment 2 Beginning Poetry

Due By: Tuesday, March 7
2/28/2006

Exercise Week II

Write a line or two in the following meters (I’ve given you a sample, so you can imitate by ear):

iambic tetrameter

You want to see your dog alive.

My home is warm and does not creak.

trochaic tetrameter

Bless us then with grace for ever

Home is where I live and function.

anapestic trimeter

Where the youth pined away with desire

In the light we will strive for the peace.

dactylic tetrameter

Eve with her basket was deep in the bells and grass

Stairs up the house do so creak with my footsteps up.

Feel free to extend or shrink the line by however many feet you like.

Talk about the experience of trying to write metrically

I found it very difficult to match my words to the stresses. I ended up sticking mostly to one syllable words to make it easier for me. But I did find that I got new ideas for topics to write about while working on this assignment. So, I can see this as an exercise that might job my mind into more creative outlets. I think being constrained to a format can sometimes give spring to new ideas in order to fit into the rigidity of the exercise. I think it also helped that I was listening to classical music while doing this assignment.

---End of Text---

Booth submission for week three:

A Poem on Poetry

What pattern?
Which pattern to be used?
Shall it be iambic?
Should it be dactylic?
Does it really matter?

Poems are such frail things
They sway with the wind in the willows
They bow to no one
Yet yield to anyone who will partake
Why then do we struggle to put thought to pen?

Why indeed?
Why? Because it is in us
Because it must come out
Because it is in the wind and the trees
Because it is in our hearts and minds


Jason Schneiderman -- kafkaboy@yahoo.com -- 3/8/2006 16:06
Iambs-- perfect

trochees--great! I like how the "I" is louder than "and", but softer than "where" and "live"-- it shows your understanding of how stress is relative.

anapests--again, excellent.

dactyls-- I can find no fault! The "up" is perhaps a little more stressed than desirable, but it's almost impossible to end a dactyllic line with two fully unstressed syllables-- the end of the line creates stress unless you use a word like "strawberry"-- and how many words like "strawberry" can you end a line with?

Great job-- thanks so much for sticking it out and finishing the exercise. I don't think it's a great way to compose, but it's very useful for revision, and having an idea of where a line might be going slack, or why line lengths need to vary, and so on. Yes, Baroque music is *perfect* for meter assignments!

Anne Mernin -- amernin@comcast.net -- 3/8/2006 10:00
Hi, Janine. You've hit on one of my favorite things - reading poems about poetry. I like the way you think through the choice of meter and why a poet needs to in fact even think through the process and put pen to paper.

My only suggestion would be to make us work harder, engage our minds a bit more by giving us images that allow us to wander through the poet's thoughts and creation process. I think one of the great things about reading poetry is that it engages us and draws us in to a space we can explore. Hopefully we come away changed. To be more specific, why are poems frail? Show me the frailty and then let me come to that conclusion on my own.

You have chosen a difficult topic and have obviously given it thought. I love the image of swaying in the willows and the way you touch on the needs of the poet to allow the poem to be set forth. Good job!

Francesca Ray -- yogalife@bigpond.net.au -- 3/8/2006 16:21
Hi Janine! A very interesting poem - appropriate title, stimulates the interest of the uninformed readers (unlike ourselves!)to want to discover more about the meaning and pattern of iambic and dactylic. Good use of repetition of the word "pattern" and all the questions in the first stanza. Shows the many choices than are available to the poet in shaping/constructing the poem. Also the repeated image of the wind and trees and the repeated questioning "why" denoting the struggle the poet has in getting his/her thoughts on paper.

Also liked the rhythmic sound of the first stanza and then the change of pace to a more reflective and leisurely mode in the following stanza. Also like the use of metaphor in likening a poem to a tree.

Something that didn't quite work for me was the image that "poems are such frail things" because "they sway with the wind in the willows". In my mind their ability to sway with the wind (go with the flow of life)would be their strength. For me they would become frail if they resisted the wind.

The only other thing that wasn't quite clear for me were the last three lines which I see as answering the question "why do we struggle?" Once again I don't see struggle in nature ie the wind and trees. And in regard to "hearts and minds" I see that the struggle we have is often one between the heart and mind.

Helen Aki -- silwene@comcast.net -- 3/10/2006 11:48
Hi, Janine—nice work on your first booth piece! I always enjoy reading about writing, if only because I identify with a lot of what other writers have to say about the process.

I like how you begin with a decision about a sort of “surface” aspect to writing poetry—structure and meter—and end with reflecting on the essential nature of poetry: something which is “in our hearts and minds,” something which pushes at us from the inside, struggling to spill over and out onto the page. I think every writer can identify with that: the feeling that “it must come out.” I always feel like I have very little control over my writing and poetry (which is why I personally have trouble with meter and other conscious decisions about style and impact), it's something separate from me. As the writer, I am merely a tool.

I found the middle stanza confusing. First you say poems are “frail,” then you claim “they bow to no one,” then you add that they “yield to anyone.” What are you really trying to say here? I think the main point you're trying to make is in the final line of the middle stanza—Why then do we struggle to put thought to pen? This seems like the key to your poem, and it's important to rely on intuition—after all, creativity is not about following a formula (lines breaks + meters + metaphor = poem). It's about following your train of thought and phrasing your insights on the world in a new and exciting way. (Resist the temptation to say things simply because they “sound good.” I get the feeling that “sway with the wind in the willows” is one such phrase, and not actually what you meant.)

Linda Feng -- lrf46@columbia.edu -- 3/12/2006 10:23
Janine, If poems ought to raise good questions, yours raised a very pointed one -- why bother? It's a wonderful question I often ask myself and the answer is never the same. I also like how the poem attempts to answer it -- because it must be done. Just that fact alone is much food for thought. It's so provocative that I want to hear more about WHAT it is that is "in us" and WHAT needs to come out.

My suggestion is to reduce some of the straight-forward repetitions in the beginning of the stanzas (Why indeed?/Why? Because it is in us). They create too quickly the effect of a refrain, before there is content/idea that can support that repetition. For example, if Poe's poem began with "Nevermore! Nevermore!" it would not be as interesting as eventually arriving at the "nevermore"s after a certain emotional arc.

Keep going -- it is such a worthwhile question!

Janine Bouyssounouse -- janinecb@safe-mail.net -- 3/12/2006 15:53
Thank you for your thoughts on my poem. You all had interesting points to consider. The middle stanza seems to be the one people have the most trouble reading. I will look at possible revisions to keep the same concept I had, but to communicate it in a better way.

Jack Deknight -- thoughtprovoker3@aol.com -- 3/12/2006 22:28
Great poem and yes i too had trouble with wanting to "know whats in us" more detail , but great poem

Dana Swain -- dswain@mac.com -- 3/13/2006 04:41
Hi Janine - When I read this poem aloud, I felt it had nice alliteration and rhythm. And since it is a poem on poetry it is nice to see those tools used within the structure of the poem--rather self-referential and a hidden delight to the poem.

Along with everyone else I would have to say there was a discrepency for me when I read that poems are frail but they bow to no one. And I also agree with others that I want you to make me work for it a little harder. Give me images that our suggestive but not conclusive. Even if the suggestion is what you have concluded for yourself, I want the poem to be open-ended for me to consider the point of poetry for myself--with a little hint from you.

Good work, thanks!

Eugene Marks -- genemarks@juno.com -- 3/13/2006 09:02
Poems are just words. words are just letters. as letters they are frail, swaying in whatever breeze blows them but the meaning of good poetry is usually obtuse or ambiguous and it takes time and study to discern the truth of the words and even then, the truth is individualized by perception. I think that's what janine meant in the middle stanza. I like poetry that doesn't give up all its worth in one reading; one that can be savored time and again. The rest of the poem is just instructional and descriptive of the writing process. The middle stanza shows why poetry is, well, poetry.

Vicki Phillips -- phillips_v@wvwc.edu -- 3/13/2006 22:58
In the second stanza I like the sound of "why then" followed by "thought to pen." It ends the stanza firmly. I do not like the repetition of "it" in the third stanza. I do not think the solution is to replace the pronoun "it" with the noun "poetry." But what if the third to fifth lines utilized metaphor--"because it must come out that the wind and the trees are in our hearts and minds." As the stanza reads now, I find my mind directed to think about the abstraction poetry. If the poem could end with an image for poetry it would be more evocative for me.

Deborah Baird -- tilly376@mikrotec.com -- 3/14/2006 05:40
Janine, I like this poem, but I think it could be expanded. You have the stanza about poems being frail things - they are also very strong things - i.e. singing songs (poems) marching off to war. You caould have an additional stanza that addresses that also. I alos think that all of the stanzas individually could be expanded. In fiction/nonfiction writing, we typically use a series of "threes." This is not a rule for poetry of course, but I think humans gravitate to threes. You could add trochaic, to keep in the mode. And how about some alliteration: "does meter really matter?"

I think you could strengthen the last stanza and make it more dramatic by including: "in our sinews, in our bones, in our ears, and in our eyes." To demonstrate the "essentialness" of poetry. (I think I may have just coined a word.) Also,my poetry group would suggest that you use only one "because" in the last stanza - it makes for tighter writing.

I really like the poem because I like writing poetry, and I like thinking about the processes of writing poems. I personally have them come forth in so many ways. I am a "walker" and one summer day while I was walking, words started coming to mind that matched the rhythm of my feet on the pavement. This became the initial stanza of a narrative ballad that is about 16 stanzas long. I had never written anything like that before. It was about my father, with whom I am still making my peace although he died almost thirty years ago. Poetry also sustains life for some of us. This poem feels like the beginning of a poem to me, personally, and if expanded at each stanza and with additional stanzas, it would mature and be complete. I hope this does not come across too negative because that is not my intent. Debbie

Kirsten Elliott -- kirell@wowway.com -- 3/14/2006 07:42
Janine,

Sorry I am late in responding to your work. I have been sick and unable to lift my head. The image of a poem swaying in the wind as a willow stays with me. I am a very visual person and so I can see the willow tree in the wind but I can not see the questions raised. Also, the words roll nicely off my tongue, keeping my ears and my mind in tempo. I agree with what others, in that I wanted to know to more details about poems and how they seep in our lives, how we need to write them. The straightforward approach reminds me of Brenda Ueland's writing. Direct, to the point and no bones about it; this is the way it is. Sometimes that type of approach can make me uncomfortable, a little jarring so I had to reread a couple of times to remove my own comfortable space to hear what you where saying and how it was being said. I felt like some detailed expansion on why we need to write would of helped to satisfy some of my restlessness

Janine Bouyssounouse -- janinecb@safe-mail.net -- 3/14/2006 08:30
Thank you Eugene. I appreciated your understanding of the meaning of having poems be both frail and strong at the same time. I see them in both lights. Much of poetry is about the frailness of the human nature, but these poems stand to show the inner strength it takes to express these feelings in the written word.

Kristen, I am a very stright forward and direct person with hidden depths. Thank you for pulling back from your initial uncomfortableness to reread the poem. I don't believe all writing or all poetry should be comfortable. Some of the more dramatic effects are achieved through being uncomfortable. This is my perception.

I do appreciate all of the comments you have made. I will consider them in a revision of this poem, but do not take offense if I don't use all of the suggestions. I wonder how to give you all a peek at the revisions I finally make to this poem.

Grande Lum -- grande@accordence.com -- 3/14/2006 18:42
Janine,

I enjoyed the repetition and use of meter asking questions in stanza one. In the third stanza I liked how you worked with idea of poetry being in us and coming out of us and would encourage you to play with that idea some more, perhaps by using more nature imagery in the last stanza. Thanks for sharing this meditation on poetry!

Jason Schneiderman -- kafkaboy@yahoo.com -- 3/16/2006 01:57
The title does an excellent job of locating the reader—this it going to be a self relexive poem—a poem that will be questioning or explaining the genre to which it belongs. The first stanza seems like the poet is beginning to write—which creates an interesting tension with the title. The title tells us that we are about to enter a poem, but the first line suggests that the poem has not been written, and that the poet is rather working out what to do. Something like coming to the theater and finding the actors on stage trying decide how to deliver their lines. The performance calls attention to itself as a process. The first two lines seems roughly synonymous—both calling for a necessity of pattern. The next two lines suggest that the pattern of the first two lines is a metrical pattern, which is a curious limitation, considering how many patterns one might find in a poem. The final line of the stanza rejects the strictures of a pattern. The final three lines of the stanza resolve into a steady trochaic trimeter:

*Shall* it | *be* I | *amb* ic? *Should* it | *be* dac | *tyl*ic? *Does* it | *real*ly | *mat*ter?

It’s not so steady as to be overwhelming—the effect is really quite subtle, but it adds a wonderful layer of irony (a gap between the literal and intended meaning) to the stanza by covertly placing the pattern in place at the same moment it claims to search for a pattern and then discard the need for one.

The second stanza abandons the first stanza’s project of writing a poem, and moves into a description of the quality of poems. The phrase “wind in the willows” conjures up images of Frog and Toad for me, but certainly it is lovely. I’m a little unsure of the metaphor—it seems like the poem is a reed, given the pastoral setting of the willow tree—but then they refuse to bow and willingly yield in ways that seemed less organic or plantlike. I think that the plant-like image is meant to dominate the first two lines of the second stanza and the person-like image is meant to dominate the second two lines, but that both are intended across all four. The final line of the second stanza seemed to mark a second abrupt break (the first one coming between the first and second stanza). We’ve moved from watching the process of writing a poem, to being told about the nature of poems, and now questioning the motivation of poets. The final line reverses the expected cliché of putting “pen to paper” with putting “thought to pen”—placing the writing process into the poet’s mind, rather than the poet’s writing.

The final stanza repeats the question twice as “Why indeed? / Why?” suggesting the futility of the question. The poem ends by answering the question, but tautologically—the poem is because the poem is. We write the poem down because the poem was already there. The poem ultimately values poetry because it values poem. It also pulls off the neat trick of having finished the poem that it enacted the writing of in the first stanza. I feel like “hearts and minds” has been somewhat emptied for me by the current political landscape—but that’s probably just passing

My general rule of thumb is that everyone gets one poem about being poet and/or writing poetry.

Also, I do feel compelled to respond to Janine’s request that we “not take offense if I don't use all of the suggestions.” One really shouldn’t ever feel compelled to accept suggestions, and I’m not even completely comfortable with the idea of suggestions in a poetry workshop—although they are inevitable. The goal of a poetry workshop is to help poets achieve their visions for their poems. I assume that poets take workshops because they are dissatisfied with their poems—that they have a vision for their work that hasn’t been achieved yet. I think that the best way to help someone achieve that vision is to look closely at their poem and offer their understanding of it. Then the poet can see where the audience is reading the poem they intended to write, and where there is a gap. But one should neither feel offended that one’s suggestions were not taken or obligated to take suggestions. If your name is at the top of the page, it’s fundamentally your poem.

Perhaps one of the most interesting things about this poem is that it gives us a definition of poetry that we can then apply back to poem as we (re)read it. I keep wondering what it would mean for a poem to be frail (as opposed to sturdy), and whether or not I would call this poem frail. Does this poem refuse to bow, but yield to anyone? Was it already in the trees and the wind?

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